How to Build a Network—Even If You Hate Networking

At EnergyTrust of Oregon, we know it isn’t easy. The tremendous weight of today’s operating costs. Working in cool, drafty spaces with inefficient heating systems. Or under lights that have seen brighter days. But we also know how to help you upgrade those systems. Lower those costs and meet the demands of your business with smart, energy-efficient solutions. Find cash incentives at energytrust.org. EnergyTrust of Oregon. More power to you. Networking is a tool. It’s a talent. It’s a skill. It’s something that you have to practice, practice, practice in order to get good at it. I’m here today with Michael Foreman. He’s a celebrated corporate speaker and a networking strategist. He’s best known for his book, Networking Unleashed. Michael delivers dynamic presentations that empower individuals and organizations to achieve greater success. He is a desert storm veteran. So thank you for your service, Michael. And his leadership and service are a cornerstone of his impactful speaking style. He resides in coming Georgia with his wife. So welcome to the show, Michael. Really glad to have you. It’s great. I had the pleasure of being interviewed on your podcast just a few weeks ago. Time flies fast. You had a great time. You’re a great interviewer and I really was looking forward to this. To get us kicked off, I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your career journey and how you got to be such a big fan of networking. Well, when I was in the Air Force, I was in a position where I outwrench many people who are older than I was and I had to tell them how to do things and what to do things and I had to do it such a way where they wouldn’t get annoyed with me. So that began my journey and I didn’t realize that that was the beginning. Then I went into my own businesses, I owned Pizzeria’s restaurants, I owned a graphic design studio and what this did was it showed me a how to speak to my employees, how to speak to vendors, how to speak to customers. I was trying to get all the same type of stuff from them, but I have to talk to them all in different ways. And then from there, I went into corporate and it was in a mortgage company, did very well. My brother and I at the company and we started with just here and I as mortgage loan or regiators, but then we business with 15 loan officers and nine back home. So we built that up. I then moved from New York down to Jordan and I became involved with the law firm as a sales director. I was the face of the company, the law firm, mortgage company, whatever else. And I was speaking. So about 10 years ago, began my speaking career and it came to today. So it sounds like networking was just kind of baked in part of doing business from the get go. You’ve got to make contacts and know how to speak with people and build your network starting with owning a small business, is that right? That’s right. That networking is the basis of all businesses. Every business has to network. But with all my experience, I’ll call experience, I went to the school of hard knocks. I learned how to do everything incorrectly before I learned how to. Excellent. So it sounds like it would be good idea to listen to some of your experiences in all these areas. I’ve been to a certain number of lessons at the school of hard knocks myself and I tried to learn from others as much as I can. Failure is the best teaching tool for success. Awesome. So you’re a big fan of networking. I’m going to speak for probably a good amount of my audience when I say that I’ve not been a fan of networking. It’s not been something that I have really enjoyed over the years. It’s always been something more like, I don’t know, taking your medicine like this is good for you. You should do this. Advice would you have for someone who’s kind of skated by without doing a lot of that over their career? Well, really we’re talking about either extroverts or introverts. Every time I talk about networking, I’m extroverted, obviously. And I just go on talking about it. But an introvert is a separate class, sort of, speak because they don’t enjoy going out and networking. They don’t enjoy going out to be crowds. They don’t enjoy any of it. And I enjoy all of it. I always suggest going by yourself, because you don’t want to take the time out and talk with the person you came with or have them talk to people that you want to talk to. So go by yourself. However, introverts, my suggestion is to go with somebody, somebody who is extroverted. So when you walk into that networking environment and you say, oh my god, 300 people, what am I going to do? That person will kind of ground you and you walk up to the table. Let’s say there are five people there. And there’s a whole lot of things you should do. I’m kind of jumping the gun a little bit. But when the conversation comes around to you and you say, this is a conversation I want to be a part of, that person is going to introduce you, say, you know something? Hey, Greg, you know a lot about that. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about that? It’s kind of like your introduction. And now the rule that felt like it was just suffocating you, all of a sudden it’s released and you feel a little more confident and you can talk about it. So that’s my first suggestion. All right. So bring your extrovert wingman to help support you in getting the conversation started. That’s right. And actually wrote an article, advice for introverts that I’ll send to you. But before we jump ahead, I want to make the case a little bit more to our introverts who, well, you know, I’ve always been okay. I’ve gotten my next job through one way or another. Why would they be motivated to go out and talk to people when it’s so uncomfortable in a networking environment? Well, for one thing, if you’re looking to advance within your company, networking is the way to do it because it’s so much easier when you network and you’re referred by somebody in house for your next job. That’s the first thing you should think about network. Networking is a tool. It’s a talent. It’s a skill. It’s something that you have to practice, practice, practice in order to get good at it. Now with my coaching clients, I always say, let’s develop your 32nd elevator pitch, right? Because I’m trying to do is make focus on exact what you do. Just try to be comfortable. When you go to these little events, you’re getting more comfortable, more comfortable, and eventually you’re going to get it to a bigger networking event. Right. So there’s advantages for you within your company. That’s a really good point. It’s not just outside of your company because when you think about your career, you’re thinking about longer term and where’s my next job and my job after that. So there’s a lot of value. I’ve faced needing a new job and I don’t have a lot of prospects. I don’t have a lot of people who I can call. So in a sense, I’ve been sweeping it under the rug a little bit and creating a situation that’s going to be more stressful for me and potentially worse for me economically when it comes to that. So there’s your long term career. But also within your company, the more people you know, the more opportunities are there, the more people who get vouch for you is you want to rise or find the bad next crawl. So there’s a lot of good benefits here. You’re always looking at what position you have. You’re also looking at the next position. Right. So you want to say, okay, you know what? I want to get an ex pipe of job and my supervisor, the next position that I want to hold. You have to look at cool. Your supervisor networks with because those are the people you want. They network with. So when the time comes for you to get a job either his job or her job or a job like that, you can network with those people that can help you a lot. And networking here means that they know you. People know you. They appreciate your strengths. They know you as a person. They appreciate you for what you are and what you can bring to your working role. Yeah. Network is very generic. You can network when you go shopping at a grocery store, buy a pair of pants in a department store. When you’re talking to people on the line of the cashier, somebody else looking for the same thing that you are, you’re always networking and you always have that in the back of your mind. Yeah. And there’s incredible value in a network in a different context software startups. One of the big things that companies are valued much higher if the company incorporates network effects into their business model. And it can be exponentially more money. You think of Facebook and any social media network as a prime example. But those are virtual representations of real world networks. There’s real people. These are the networks that you’re described, which inherently have value for people. You’re faced with the fact that in person networking versus digital networking. One thing you have to remember is that the networking and you go to a Zoom conference or just on LinkedIn, you have to realize that on the other side of the computer is another person, right? But you have to network. You have to know what to say, what to do and how to do it with that person. For girls of how you got there, you got there, but you still got in touch with a person. So that’s what you have to remember. So let’s talk about some of those skills. One of the things that’s famously dislike a small talk and maybe they’re just not used to it. They don’t necessarily have that skill. What advice would you have for someone who maybe isn’t really sure how to do it? Well, before you go to a networking event, write down about 10 items. 10 small talk, other questions or things you want to talk about. Then practice, practice, practice, practice saying the first three so that you don’t have to sit down and constantly look down at the card or you’re full. You are practicing what you practice in a mirror. Just practice and thinking about walking the whole way, say hello to the person. Hi, that’s a nice blazer you have. That’s cool pair of shoes or something. Anything or small talk and you’ll soon get better and better. One piece of advice I’ve heard is to make an observation and compliments are an observation. That’s a blazer or that’s a nice pair of shoes or which allows that serves two purposes. One, you’re initiating the small talk to you’re complimenting the other person and it makes them feel better and by them feeling better, they’ll share more. So you come up with your list and could be compliments, observations. Is it helpful to think of topics that are interesting to you? Does that help? Interesting to you. It might be good but how do you know it’s interesting to somebody else? So kind of make it more generic. The more generic you make it, the more art of your casting your net. Then by the response, you figure things out. Whenever I try to network with somebody, I remember the form, F-O-R-M, family, occupation, recreation and a message. I remember that talking to you and I bring up your husband and your wife, your sister, brother, son, daughter, whatever. I will focus on that. How about your son? Does he play a little leak? You don’t really not quite sure. Yes, he plays first base. I used to manage literally and whatever. So occupation obviously is job. You don’t know what they do. Go on to recreation and they see what they like to do because one thing that you’ll remember about people, they love to talk about themselves. They love it. Oh, they like the ski, they like the boat, they like to play music. As soon as that little piece comes out, they talk about that. So his family, occupation, recreation and what was the last one? A message, a message where you can get onto the same level as them. So that’s pretty much a generic sort of speak. You can just try to find whatever they say. Now don’t lie. Don’t fib as you’ll get caught up. It can’t be like, oh yeah, well, I like the jet ski. Oh yeah, I used the jet ski all the time. You did what kind of jet ski did you use? Just have to be careful with that. Which model? Yeah, that’s good. And then you’ve talked about strategic networking. You asked me some questions about that on your podcast. What is strategic networking for you? Strategic networking. Most people go out in network. People go out in network and they don’t know exactly who they’re going after. They’re just casting such a wide net. Strategic networking is knowing who you’re going after. Okay. So is your four people that you go after? Strategic is you go out and you try to make conversation with those people. You’re not just trying to make conversation with anybody and everybody. That’s strategic. You’re trying to get to know the types of people who can help you in your career or in that area and you’re not rude to people, but you know, you would try to seek them out in an event. Correct. But when I said, you know, don’t not talk to everybody else because you’re not only speaking to those people, you’re speaking to those people’s network as well. Because you don’t know. Say, oh, look, I just met this coach about networking. You’ve got to meet him and he or she will introduce me to those people. So you’re talking to their networks as well. Right. So you don’t want to be too narrow in your focus in that network. That’s right. So another thing I’ve tried over the years is developing some kind of a system where and not just meet people, but I keep in touch on a cadence and this can be done electronically. Do you have a system or a recommendation as far as maintaining your network? Absolutely. So let me just bring it back a little bit. Go to the world of the mortgage business and I just come on with a shoebox, hold with business cards and say, well, how good I did. I really didn’t do it all because I didn’t know any of the people on the cards. Now in a three or four hour networking event, I come home with about 15 or 20 sister cards because then you can follow up with them accurately. So I call it my secret sauce for follow up. Your follow up is so much more important than actually meeting the person. I say that’s with social media and everything else. But when you get back from your event, you send a little thank you email. Hey, Greg, thanks for spending your time with me. I really appreciate it. Hope we have a great week, Michael and send it off. People wait for the next day or they put it in a line of things like on three days. You send them an email the next morning. You write a handwritten thank you. No, that’s right. Handwritten thank you. Hey, Greg. This is Michael. I met you at such and such date at such an event. We spoke about XYZ looking forward to do business with you and you send it off and match it being the person that receives that thank you note like oh my god. It’s a thank you card. Nobody sends a thank you card anymore. You know, really? So that should get some sort of response. But if it doesn’t, wait about three days. You write an email. This is Michael. I met you on such and such date at such and such event. We spoke about XYZ. I say that do that every time that I make contact with you, right? Because what does that do? Keeps me in my mind. But that that second email after you finish writing all that, Hey, Greg. This is Michael’s book about whatever. Listen, I’m looking forward to doing business with you. How’s next week, Michael? And let’s see if you respond. Let’s say you don’t respond. So you weigh another three days and you send another email. Hey, Greg. This is Michael. I met you at such an event. We spoke about XYZ with you Tuesday and Wednesday seemed to have opened up for me. How does one of those days look? Send it all. Now let’s say you’re a bad person. You still haven’t answered me yet, right? So you have to wait for three more days. Hey, Greg. This is Michael. I saw you on such an event. We spoke about XYZ. Tuesday seemed to have filled up. How’s Wednesday? Michael. Okay. Now, still an awful person. I haven’t answered me yet. And I weighed another three days. I do a little bit different this time. Hey, Greg, this is Michael. I saw you on such an event. We spoke about XYZ. I said Tuesday and Wednesday were kind of open. They seemed to have closed. Just get back to me with whatever day it feels good because that you kind of closed it, but you left it open. You take all of this information. You put it into your CRM because I’m assuming you have a CRM and you put all those points of contact in there and you use the CRM using the tasks and everything else. But on LinkedIn, you go to his contact and you may contact with him. What type of business is he? He could be part of a metal roofing. I don’t know. Right? But then you say, oh, here’s an article that I picked up about metal roofing. I thought you might be interested and you put that down. So you have a little bit of a touch. Like, oh, that’s very interesting. Oh, you know what? I’m really disregarded, Michael, but I’m going to answer him through LinkedIn. So whichever way that you do it, but as long as you get it there and listen, after two weeks, two and a half weeks, if you still haven’t gotten anything, that’s okay. Take his information, put it into your drip campaign and you send him an email every month. Until he tells you to stop or I’ll be with you. This is really a sales motion that you’re describing. You have a business. You’re networking for the purpose of getting new clients. That’s how you build that networking event. That’s the start of the relationship and then you’re nurturing it like the way you described and ends up one way or another. And so for the people who are bad people like me who ignore people trying to do business with me, say you’re on the other end psychologically, how do you think about rejection? How do you tell people to think about rejection, either in this scenario or even in the even just a networking event? Prove someone is, how are you doing? I noticed here in this profession where you start a conversation and they kind of like turn and they kind of brush you off like that. How do you think about that? Well, networking is very strange. You have to have a thicker skin. You need to go after it because this is business. It’s not a social event, right? It sounds like all that you don’t like me or like my clothing or this stuff. It’s a business event. If they look at you like that, turn back away. You don’t want to pick that person anyway. So whenever you thought about that person before you walked up to him, it changes almost immediately. It also depends on how you before that negative result. You pro it’s a person. Let’s say there’s a group of three people talking and you want to go into that group. You just walk up. You don’t immediately start talking and start identifying yourself. You listen. It’s called active listening. You listen for the conversation. Is this a conversation that I want to be a part of? It’s not it. Well, you know what? You haven’t said anything yet. Plot of the bow. I’m going to the next three people, right? But if it is, then you wait for the conversation to come around with you. Kind of like I was using my wingman. You’re listening for the conversation. And then you say something. Hopefully it’ll be intelligent and something that you’re adding. You have to bring value to the conversation. One or two of those people will talk to you and look at you and say, well, what do you mean by that? How does that work? And then you can start with that conversation going back or forth, right? Right. You’re breaking in. So helpful advice. This is business. And it’s not a date. You may eventually make friends, but that’s not the primary function there. So that’s helpful to think about. Ther skin. You know, if you’re very sensitive, don’t just go out and start networking. You have to start with a smaller group and get used to that talking. But again, it goes back to your small talk comments after things that you can bring up, looking at their shoes, their blouse or anything else like that. You know, that small talk can lead to more important, right? So you start out with a small talk and maybe you’ll find out what the other person does. Always have them talk about themselves. You’re not there to talk. So when I go to an networking event, I go to the community. I go with something called a servant’s heart, right? I’m looking to give value, not receive it. So I’m not looking to make business at all. I’m looking at making connections. When I find somebody that I sit down with, I’m thinking form and I’m having them talk about themselves. And finally, they’re talking about their job and what they do and how they do it. I say, you know something. I like you. I like how you do business. How can I make you more successful? How can I be a good referral source for you? And usually that blows away. So I don’t even know what you do yet. And you start talking back and forth, but start off with that because that level of trust and that barrier between the two of you comes down. Remember the mantra for networking. If they know you, if they like you, if they trust you, they’ll do business here. That’s such a great bit of advice approaching this situation from other standpoint. And I like that in public speaking context. Also, it becomes less about you. It’s really about the other people and how am I helping people and how am I of service here? I think that’s a really helpful framing for introverts or people who might be looking at this as maybe a judgment on me or a referendum on me. No, you’re going there primarily to help people, make connections and helping people. And of course, a lot of other things flow naturally from that. So Michael, what do people misunderstand most about networking? Very, very big misconception is when you go on in your network, you immediately start talking, right? You immediately start telling everybody what to do, how you do it, and where you do it. Right? I’ve been at a table where somebody has walked up a guy with business cards. So there’s five of them at this table. And he handed out business cards and he laughed. And everybody sat there and looked at me, what is this? Everybody threw the card away. So you have to really think about what you’re going to do. Your main goal is who is listening to you when you would say you’re adding value to the conversation. Your whole thing is you should be listening, active listening, listen to the other people, listen to what you can do, listen to how you can help money us. So how many connections should I have on LinkedIn? Oh, that’s a tough. I spoke to people who’ve started out. They have a few hundred connections, a few thousand. I will also talk to people that have, I have a million connections, right? So it really depends on how much you’re using LinkedIn. If you’re using it and it’s a primary source, every network and group, every business card, you’re making it with LinkedIn. You have about a 99% chance of them saying, yes, I’ll get it with you because they’re looking at their numbers also. But you have to really think about it. And right there, oh, look, I have 10,000 connections on LinkedIn. Well, that’s great that you have that many. How many have you been in contact with? How much value did you bring to the table? So you have to look at it that way. It really should be how much you’re using LinkedIn. LinkedIn is business, right? It’s not for social or not for anything else like that. Facebook always felt this more for family. Instagram is for videos. You make a quick video. You put out LinkedIn, but you also put it on Instagram, right? Because the followers are a little different, but the message is the same. Take all the podcasts that I’ve been on and I use up these to software called Opus Clips. And that breaks up the video for me. And I post it on her every day. And I post on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and my YouTube channel. So with just a click of a mouse, it takes me about three minutes. And I post on all of those social media at the same time. Somebody just comes to my YouTube channel and it’s like, oh my God, he has 700 videos on his YouTube. Or you look at my LinkedIn, you see all my videos. Which is doing with that piece of software called Opus Clips. Or it gets my message out. And so is your preference to, let’s say you’re making a business contact, is your preference to do that by email? Or will you initiate through LinkedIn and you try to move it to email? I start off with email. I send them that thank you. Thank you for meeting with me. Thank you for attending the whatever. Whatever it is that you met that person, you send them a thank you email. And then you go to LinkedIn and connect with him and say, hey, I met you at Sosuzuz Place. Click yes. So that’s just the beginning of your follow-up system. Now whether you’re trying to make a sale, trying to make a connection, or you need to increase your visibility within your company, you’re doing basically the same thing. Because within your own company, you’re making a connection with them and say, hey, this is my work down in XYZ part of the company. So they remember you. But just in terms of the channel, do you find it gets across better on LinkedIn versus email is one more personal than the other? I use both because if I use both, what I should see is name. I just saw them on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is always, you just sent me an email. So it may help the other person remember. Interesting. Yeah. The more touch points, the more likely they are to remember you. Absolutely. So do you mind when we go through the seven steps in networking unleashed? It’s seven steps, but it’s really like nine or ten. Right. And I combine that for the book. You know, it goes from the first time you meet him to that first email to the thank you note, to the touch points within social media, you know, everything intersects. Right? If you met this one person and you really want to connect with him, then you’re trying all these, the thank you card is one of them email the lead in. It’s all different points of touch. And if you do it after the first night, the next morning, three days later, you have a much better chance of making that connection, whether it’s somebody in your own company or somebody outside your company, that’s what it is. The seven points are really just that, the different points of what I just said. It’s funny online website. I have ten different points for you. It’s free. You know, it’s down at the bottom. They also have a free general idea of what my book is about. But again, the seven points, that’s basically what it is. You kind of covered those through the course of our conversation here, that kind of elaborate system of gradually helping them to remember you and establish the business contact. Yes. And what I remember now, the more points of contact, the more they will remember you. And what you write is how they will remember you. That’s why I always said the date, the events name, and what you talked about. You stay that in every type of contact, because then he’ll remember you or she’ll remember. That’s important. Now it’s so, as you’re going through it and collecting your 10 to 15 new contacts, remembering what you talked about is very important. So public speaking, you’ve obviously been doing this for 10 years. And do you coach public speaking as well? Yes. I coach the business networking, but public speaking out to get on stage. It’s a conference building. There’s so much to it. You don’t even realize that you haven’t all the time. Every person hasn’t, but it’s whether or not they want to do that public speaking event or not. But yes, I coach for public speaking and I coach for business networking and communication because I tie those kind of together. You say people have the opportunity to do it all the time? Is that what you do? Well, you can practice, you know, on the paid public speaker, not everybody will be paid to go out there and speak. But if you’re given an opportunity to get up and just, you know, you talk about your daughter, you talk about the school, you talk about your place of work, your ass to get up in front of your peers and just tell about a project that you’re working on. Right. And for someone who’s just getting started with that, where do you start with getting people more used to that, more comfortable? If you’re just starting out to a mirror, a few things, you know, practice talking to yourself and it’s fun as hell, but you talk to yourself in a mirror, you make a joke, you do do different things. You see your failed reactions. You see it because what you see is what other people see. So you’re just trying to make sure now if you’re married, like, you know, my wife will walk by and practicing a speech. Say, you are funny looking right now in what way. I’m like, well, great. That’s great for my voted confidence. I always bring humor to my public speaking into my coaching because humor goes a long way and if you want to practice giving your speech, bring a little story because people remember the story more than whatever you’re trying to teach them to good pieces of advice, humor and storytelling and I really like that suggestion of starting with the mirror. A lot of times, first thing you hear is toast masters and I need a way pose between, you know, where I am and toast masters. So the mirror seems like a pretty good pit stop there. So, Michael, this is fantastic. Thank you so much. Where can people learn more about your work? Well, the place to grow is my website, Michael a4man.com. There you’ll see the third podcast that I’ve been on. You’ll find my digital courses, what about networking, which is my prime digital course. I have one for students about why Gen Z is not getting a job. And I have one about broadcasting. So you can look at those different courses. But more importantly, down on the bottom is a contact form. So you put your information in what you want to speak to me about within a day. I’ll get back in touch with you. But on there is all of the information you’ll need. Michael a4man.com. Check it out and I’ll check out the one about podcasting. Should be useful. Thanks Michael. Those aren’t expensive courses. So, go ahead. Some days call for some oomph to amplify your everyday look. 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