Why Men Need Vulnerability to Heal

The Bleacher Report app is your destination for sports. Right now, the NBA is heating up, March Bandit’s here, and MLB is almost back. Every day there’s a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you’ve got to see for yourself. That’s why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. For me, it’s about staying connected to my sports. I could follow the teams I care about, get real-time scores, breaking news, and highlights all in one place. Dallow the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment. We’re so disconnected from ourselves, from our power, that part of healing is listening and responding to that. Because if you can do that, if you can follow your impulse, your body will heal in year. You don’t need anybody to heal you, and that’s good because nobody’s coming to save you. Hello. Welcome to the powerful Introvert podcast. I’m Greg Wanger. I’m here today with Mitch Webb. Mitch is a leading nervous system in Holistic Health Coach. He’s dedicated to helping high performers, entrepreneurs, and any individuals struggling with chronic symptoms and helping them to regain their health by addressing the root causes of disease. Unresolved trauma and nervous system deregulation. We discussed this before, and also for maybe people who are just listening. If you were watching the video, so someone might not be able to help, but noticing you don’t necessarily present the same way as most Holistic Health coaches. You mentioned you work in a practice where you’re one of three men, just three guys out of 40 people total. What’s the typical reaction you get when people find out about you? I love the observation. First off, I got some deer heads hanging in the back. I’ve got a meat head look, if you will. I like to be off there, too, can show up as me, and I’m definitely not pretending over here, though that it’s something that is something I would have done in the past. I love that description that I can hold up to coaches. I think that makes me more approachable to the right person. I think of myself sometimes as like the Joe Rogues, who’s in the Amish mental and emotional health world, and I’m a complex being. I love hunting and sport, being silly, and also I love crying and trying to go into this stuff as a Q&A. I appreciate that observation. Yeah, well, it’s fantastic. I love your style. If you’re not seeing it, there’s some great deer heads and other artifacts on the wall. I think that’s great that you’re showing that you don’t have to look a certain way, be a certain way, to take your motions in past, trauma seriously. Yeah, and you can man the served, they’re healed, all types of man. Amen. There’s a number of cultural commentaries here. There’s these ideas we have, which has led men to kind of ignore and try to stiff up our lip, got through pretend that we don’t have all these emotions going on. This also speaks to the amount of transformation that you’ve gone through. You’ve obviously done a lot of work like anyone has who’s made progress in this area. But my understanding also is that you’ve come to this line of work more recently. Can you tell us a bit more about where you grew up and how you grew up? Here in the south, I’m in North Carolina, and a pretty normal kid, played a lot of sports and didn’t have a lot of cares or worries. These channels, whenever I had a really bad accident, fell out of a second story window, and the symptoms exploded after that. I started experiencing anxiety and some end up having autoimmune issues, loaded down the road, black mold and land disease, heavy metals, diabetes, it’s like this snowball. I got another car accident. I had long haul COVID three times, and it’s just like I went from this pretty robust, I must say, perfect. I don’t think anything’s perfect. But this system where nothing was going on and then all of a sudden having these symptoms that didn’t make sense to me, I didn’t know what the word anxiety was. My upbringing taught me to never quit and especially sports. When I got some of these diagnoses and I just wasn’t feeling good, I dove into it with everything I have and did everything I got. More recently, this happened. I’ll just have to happen when I was 20 years old. Probably four or five years ago, I was really hitting a wall. We started a men’s group and some guys pulled me aside and said, hey, you’ve got some trauma. I thought the only people that have trauma is war veterans. They’re going really horrible situations. That was news to me and it changed my life. It continues to change my life. No means in my perfect or healed. I’ve made more progress in the last couple of years than I ever thought was possible. Things like getting rid of food, sensitivity, some energy back, sleep, certainly being better. Ultimately, I was trying to figure out what was wrong with me for so long. I think through this work found that early developmental trauma was a big part of this. That’s why it’s hard to identify. I didn’t come from a horrible family. There was no abuse. It was really little things that added up. Just realized that I never felt safe in my whole life. That’s what I’ve been working on and being there some of the personas that I’ve taken on that we’ve already called out. That was a big defense tactic. I can put on muscle. I can be the tough guy. I can be really good at sports and that’s how I’m going to get love. That want to challenge me or make me feel safe by controlling these different things. I love this work. I’m a big believer in that. If you’re doing a person you’ve tried everything, you’ve got chronic symptoms that don’t see all the way. They shift and maybe you’ve got different labels that you’ve given yourself. You really look at this dysregulation stuff because the nervous system touches so many systems in our body. When it’s off, that’s going to create symptoms. What I’ve seen and what I did for so long is this chasing of symptoms and trying to fix something that’s not broken. It’s actually really intelligent for the things that we’ve been through in our life. It’s showing up exactly as we are. If you’re not feeling good at the United, it’s time to address that. That’s certainly possible and doable. It makes a whole lot more sense to me than chasing these labels and symptoms that don’t really go away and treat the root cause and the whole system starts to improve. That must be confusing. All this kind of presented for you as a series of different ailments. They can seem really disconnected and probably treat it that way by the medical establishment. Black mold, it’s really hard to pin down through a medical diagnosis. Then it sounds like you had the support of some mentorship there through that men’s group. I run a group called Men on a Journey, Birian Raleigh, North Carolina. We meet once in mind, it’s just a safe space for men to show up and talk about what we’re going through. We tend to suppress things and push it down and act out there. Maybe if we don’t talk about it, it’ll go away. And meanwhile, this tension is just building under the surface. And so you see so many men with mental health issues and exploding and violence in the home. It’s because all those emotions are under the surface and they’re wanting to come out. We don’t only suppress that so long and it’s blood. We started to screw myself and two of my friends. I can’t get pulled in at the last minute. It’s funny about that for me. Now looking back is I remember thinking I’m going to help these poor bastards that have health issues. And I thought I was going to help with nutritional deficiencies. I thought, you know, because I have the background in health coaching and nutrient and it was into all the detox and violence and that stuff is foundation or it’s important. But I didn’t understand what trauma was. I didn’t understand a dysregulated nervous system. I’m reading the book, the body keeps the score at the time. And it talks about how the title says it, right? We suppress and we carry all these emotions and sensations and symptoms and it’s a result of trauma. And I remember two things specifically about that as I got to the childhood trauma stuff. And because I had, you know, loving parents that did the best they could that could have root for my head. They paid for everything. They paid for my college. I remember seeing the child get trauma section and just like flipping past it and being like, that’s ridiculous. That’s not me. You know, and that’s also showing how intelligent I’m never assistant my brain keeps things out of my awareness that we’re not ready to see in process. And so I’m sharing a little bit about the book in the group in the first meeting. I’m talking about a situation with my dad. And the way I responded, you could call that toxic masculinity. Like, I’m going to physically overwhelm him or whatever. And I thought that was cool. And there’s some guys pulled me aside at the end and they’re like, Hey, you’re reading that book, but it keeps the score. Yeah. Yeah. He’s like, that, that’s the example in there is you like you’re way you questions and things you’re saying. That’s letting me know that you’re traumatized. And that was news to me. I’m so thankful for the guy that pulled me aside and was vulnerable enough for me to say that. And that game on journey I started looking for therapists and eventually found my mentor are relying on that I’ve been just finished a year long mentorship with her. And you know, something started happening quick and other things are taking time, but it’s what I’ve been looking for for the last 20 years. And I think it’s a big root cause for many people. That’s a great story and it’s kind of beautiful how that all unfolded. And I think that for people who are able to go deeper and try to seek out deeper healing, it does start out with the symptoms and understanding the root causes of that was certainly that way for me in terms of biohacking and measuring everything. My sleep with the ring and all my steps and all the movements and you kind of start going down a certain path. And if you get to a certain point, you’re like, okay, well, how can I go deeper? You know, if you’re eating good is difficult. We know it’s actually here in the US. And it’s one of those things where if you’re not doing it right, you’re not eating foods at the appropriate food you’re eating, you’re eating fat and we can list all those out. It’s detrimental to your health. And then it’s your eating really good. And then you’re going from that from one end to the other. It’s amazing. It’s just foundational, right? Those things certainly helped me. I’m so grateful for them. It gave me a sense of control, which felt like safety when I didn’t know what safety actually felt like. And it just depends on where we’re at. Some people can just do the basics. They can eat better. They can move better. They can get outside and ground and get sunlight and maybe blind blue light at nighttime. Be more concerned about their environment and maybe do them a bit detoxing and they’re fine. There’s those of us that have deeper issues and that was certainly me. All these things helped and they were foundational in my journey and I just still felt off. And I knew there was something more for me. He just said something that really resonated with me. It was like, this was before I knew what safety actually felt like because there’s what we think is safe and then there’s safety. How would you describe if you could put into words? I’m from the angle of what’s disregulation feel like and what’s a survival mode and then coming out of that. I’ll be honest, I’m still working on that and I get peaks up it. So the way that it happens now is it’s kind of waves where it used to be just a shit show all the time. And now it’s waving, which is great. It’s moving. You know, the stuff takes time. But the analogy that I give is it’s like being held underwater your whole life. When you’re underwater and what’s it like? You’re moving slow. Things may be muted. You know, certainly if you’re looking at the environment that’s out here, it’s blurry. Maybe there’s pressure and constriction. Just the sense of like, I need something and we just don’t even know what that is until we come out and you just, and you take that breath and it feels like life. One thing it really has shifted for me is my eyesight. Everything is really pretty. Everything is in like HD and very vivid. And you know, you can look around in the world and we can say, oh man, there’s a lot of crazy horrible stuff going on and absolutely there is. But man, if I look at my window right now, it’s a beautiful memory. You know, most days are. And especially the more that we come into our body and start to recognize these things it’s like, I don’t understand where everybody else is talking about sometimes. I do think they’re bad things, but I just, I choose not to focus on that as much. I try to focus on what I can control and continue to work on this process of coming out of this survival. I mean, so many of us are there. If not all of us. And it’s a journey. And I’d say the juices work through the squeeze based on what I’ve experienced so far. It’s just getting my life back is what it feels like. Yeah, hear you on that. It’s a journey. You don’t get this all the time, but you get enough glimpses and recurring glimpses where, okay, that’s, that’s the place you want to be. I got a whole story. You know, it’s funny working with my mentors. I reliant, set lying. And in the beginning, I didn’t know if I could believe you don’t have to feel anxiety all the time. This intense activation or shut down, you know, fatigue. And every time some of my older mentors would say like, I used to have anxiety. I would pause and I’d be like, you just said, you used to, you know, so I just, you had that, you have this intense fire that I have in my body that keeps me up at night that makes my head spin with thoughts. And you don’t have that anymore. And you know, that’s because I didn’t believe I didn’t know if that was actually possible. And now that I’ve experienced that, I know it’s possible. It’s certain for someone who’s deaf for many years and that’s my clients, you know, they tried everything and nothing seems to work like just knowing that it’s possible and and harding to trust that in our body, you know, that we can handle things. That’s what’s building safety is. It’s all about self trust. Like that no matter what happens, I’m going to be okay. And I say that because I needed to hear that over and over and over again. That this is possible in the beginning. Yeah. Sometimes you need the trust of a mentor. You need someone who can kind of help you bridge that chasm. And that was certainly the case for me having a mentor who could create space that was safe and off where I could allow myself to try it or to let go in a sense. And then I remember recalling sounds something similar. Like I could actually feel this good, you know, the absence of anxiety. It didn’t seem possible. I had memories of it from when I was a kid of feeling that level of safety and their kind of peak moments, but I hadn’t felt that as an adult. What we’re talking about, like people think that, you know, disregulation is being stuck, right? Like I’m stuck in activation anxiety, hypervigilance, or I’m stuck in, you know, a free state where I’m shutting down. I can’t feel a non where I’m oscillating between those two. And so what we’re not saying here is that healing is not about being calm. You know, it’s about building more capacity so that I can be with the intensity of the human experience without shutting down, without disconnecting from myself. And so I still experience big activation. I still experience shutdown. And the more capacity I’d grow, the better those things are. And I’m sort of podcast with a friend of mine yesterday. I mean, we were talking about how things that shifted for us. And so if you’re someone that’s had crazy anxiety, you feel like you’re jumping out of your skin, you can’t sit still or you can’t sleep. It’s completely possible to heal this stuff. And it’s one step at a time, but it does not mean that things are calm. You know, it just means that now we can handle life more instead of collapsing. That’s a great point. You develop these tools and the capacities. What my friend, I was different is used to be so afraid of that activation. I mean, it would make me just tremble. I’m a fan of special effects. I’m up to the middle of night. Man, I’m sure it all. I get excited. I’m like, I mean, it’s like, because you know, what also happens is you, as you do this to work, let’s say we’ve been in fight or flight or whole life. We’ve been running from a tiger on a hamster wheel that never stops. And stepping off of that hamster wheel and feeling how exhausted your body is from running from a tiger your whole life, that’s that’s tired. And so you experience levels of fatigue, activation, and then you should be afraid of that. And now I know that when we go into a shutdown response, there’s a lot of sympathetic activation underneath that. And so if I’ve been shut down, I’m feeling fatigued. Whether that’s from doing emotional work or just being on this journey. And now I know because I learned that such a big important part of this work is education. So now my higher brain now is and associates this activation with, oh man, I’m coming down a shutdown. You know, so there’s like this new level and new layers. And that’s what healing is. It’s not that, you know, linear. It’s more circular. And we revisit these patterns, you know, we’re never the same person that we were six months ago. But if we don’t know, and if our mind doesn’t know that this is actually a good thing, then it can keep us stuck. And so that’s why education is something for. Thanks for walking us through that, you know, from that awful feeling of you wake up in the middle of the night and you just have like a shout out of the adrenaline. And sometimes you don’t know why. And then if this goes on for a period of weeks that you get into this feeling of exhaustion. And so this kind of brings up the topic of the nervous system. And you mentioned you focus a lot on the nervous system as the point of entry in your work. So maybe just to back it up a little bit, what is this connection between these feelings in our body and disease? It’s so different for everyone, right? Like I have to see this is like a 5D thing, right? That’s what healing is. It’s not about one thing. It’s not about just nutrition or treat your body well, getting outside, moving, exercising, healthy relationships, you know, engaging with our emotional state. It’s really about the person, whether that’s a big lesson that I learned this year from our mentor is instead of coming in as a mids of the health coach, I’m going to fix you. And we’re going to get you right. I’m going to teach you how to fix this stuff because if I come in with an agenda, I’ve been in intention, your nervous system is going to feel that already. And that’s probably something similar to how I’d be retrieved as a kid. Maybe you’re dismissed, you know, let me show you the right way. Instead of encouraging you to connect with your body and listen to what it’s saying and give it what it needs. And so instead of coming in with that agenda and telling people what to do, ultimately, it’s really about listening and meeting people where they’re out and getting really clear on what they want. Whether it’s now, you know, what they’ve tried, what’s worked, what hasn’t, and allow them to feel their own impulse. And so when we really slow down the conversation and kind of put that all in the table, we’ll then together, we make a plan of action and we start to execute that. And where somebody starts, it’s loving and fruit. They’re going to tell me through conversation what they are ready for and what makes their much sense for them. So if they’re a level one person, I don’t want to take them to level five and drop them in the deep end of the pool. So that may be a hybrid approach where they’re working on a couple of different things. It’s really one thing at a time so that we can really get feedback and awareness around, you know, what’s actually helping. And so someone may start with a nutrition department, someone may start with, you know, getting outside and getting some sunlight on the ground and maybe turning their wife off at night time. Somebody else may need some detox. Another person may have all that foundational stuff on board and it’s very clear that they’re dysregulated, but they’re not listening to their body. When we have trauma, we disconnect, we have quit listening. You know, we’re listening to everyone else. And if you’re like me, you’ve tried everything, you’re looking for somebody to heal me and tell me how to do it right, which doing it right is an illusion that often comes from an environment where if we didn’t get it right, then we were going to be punished. So that’s a trial response in its own. And so it’s very slowly packed these things, start to build awareness around ourselves, around our environmental habits. Oh, I didn’t know how my people pleasered. I feel my body. I feel numb. And all those things are things that I’m adhering from clients. And so again, we don’t jump into the deep end of the pool. We go really slow. We build awareness with the body. We learn to follow our impulse. And as we learn to sit with and observe ourselves and the body starts to feel safe, the more things will bubble up that we weren’t ready for earlier. You’re nervous systems math. You don’t have to figure it out. I certainly have that pattern. I wanted to figure it out, I wanted to understand because uncertainty was very scary to me. And now I’m more and more just about trusting my body, my nervous system, than what’s meant to show up today is going to show up when the more I can trust that, the less I’m gripping and controlling. And it’s more about letting go and allowing and eventually that safety comes on board. It sounds like a theme that I have here in wellness practices, generally speaking, there’s this element of trust in the body, trusting your deeper self, not your thinking mind to bring up what you’re ready to process or deal with. There’s this natural force in the body that if you would just allow it to is trying to heal and has the wisdom is as weak and gay it’s going to do its job. But we have so much conditioning on top of that. You know, where does trauma come from? It comes from generations before us. We say there’s bad stuff going on. But I mean, there’s a lot more worse stuff going on before this. You have all this technology, we’re still in animals. And it’s all about awareness and unpacking that. But once you can start listening and working with the body, it’ll show up and it recognizes that it’s like, oh man, I’m just really paying attention and checking you with me and seeing what I’m alone and really paying attention to things. And that’s going to feel good. It’s like a little kid that’s been forced outside and it’s been knocking at the door. It’s rainy, it’s cold out there and it’s been knocking forever. And we’re telling it to go away. So when we start paying attention and listening and responding, it starts responding to and it starts giving us more. And the body must have healed. We just have a society and a culture with so many things that go against our biology, our physiology and really wreck our nervous system things like all the things I’m teaching you now, it’s poor food choices that’s living in fake environments where we don’t have proper lighting, we don’t get outside and get in the sun, we’re not connected to the earth. We maybe we do want to take care of our body, but we’re punishing you here in the gym, we’re really telling ourselves that we’re not good enough and we’re trying to be perfect and we’re trying to please others instead of ourselves. We’re outsourcing all of our wisdom and our intuition to other people. And we wonder why the body is like, what do you do? You know, we’re so disconnected from ourselves, from our power. The part of healing is listening and responding to that because if you can do that, if you can follow your impulse, your body will heal in here. You don’t leave anybody to heal you and that’s good because nobody’s coming to save you. When you describe it like that, you’re wondering how good we can help you. It’s stressed out, separated from your power, from your community and that’s a big control of three, less than optimal and infinite, all around us. I was thinking of some examples of people who are at different stages of healing and we’ve already described the people who are uncomfortable but not at an extreme. Do you deal with people who are dealing with more severe disease? I have a friend going through cancer diagnosis and they’re doing all the medical treatments with just a lot of anxiety. How would you approach somebody like that? So something that’s life threatening. In that situation, I’m sure you like anything out. You know, it makes a lot of sense and someone is going through a lot of anxiety, especially facing a diagnosis or a new death experience type of situation where they’re a fear for their life. That sounds pretty stressful right out the gate and we just want to validate that and know that that’s normal and then you know, we would go really, really slow. This is called titration and doing little bits but ultimately we want to make the journey from the head and go more into the body because that’s where the wisdom is and traditional mental health are going to be more psychological and thinking and that can even lead to more retraumatization. I’m just reviewing this horrible situation over and over. We’re already doing enough of that in our daily life. Let’s start to connect with the body. A thing that we typically do as humans is we’re wired for comfort, right? I mean, if there’s discomfort, we tend to want to move away from it and that is the exact opposite of this work. It’s really about moving towards it and really accepting and allowing even this body that is diseased, that this is allowed and this makes sense and I really like the German their medicine approach to illness that says the body is not sick. The body is not broken. That symptoms, you know, we’re taught to put a bandaid on to take the pill every time we add a symptom and really it kind of flipped it because it’s saying there’s nothing wrong with your body that symptoms are either a conflict that’s active and that’s healing or a conflict in the body that’s resolved and it’s a healing instead of some problem with me, it’s accepting and allowing where I’m at and then meeting the body and saying like, what’s going on? Where do I feel that in my body? Well, I feel it feels tight. It feels like I can’t breathe. Oh yeah, that makes sense. Is there an image that comes to my mind? Yeah, you know, it’s like a band that feels like it’s around a chest like it’s squeezing me like, oh yeah, I get that. Is there an emotion that you feel with that and you know, as we tap into it, there may be a bunch, you know, there’s grief, there’s fear, there’s worry, there’s terror, all these things. So we were to work with those parts, we’d work with those emotions, those sensations would go into them and just see what does the body want for me? When we start to show up and instead of trying to fix it and change it and make it go away, it’s all about intention. Are you eating this salad because deep down, you want this thing to go away as fast as possible? Well, that’s dismissing and pushing away. But how can I move towards it? Am I eating or am I just going to sit down and meet myself and say like, what do you need? A lot of times for me, my body just says like, I want you to be patient with me. I want you to love me. I want you to hold me. You know, in some way, it’s really about the head and the thinking our way to stay, the controlling through all of our practice and meeting what’s there today, allowing that, loving that, seeing what it wants. It’s creating the relationship to happen because that part of you that is sick and disease, that is worried and freaking out and scared. That’s the part that needs you the most. It probably has for a really long time and now we’re finally paying attention and so that’s a huge opportunity for healing now. Yeah, thanks for walking through that example that really brings that to life. So another aspect of what you’re doing dealing with trauma, you’re not going to replay it. You’re not intentionally trying to replay it in that sense because it might be retraumatizing. What you’re really trying to do is kind of cut the images or the thoughts around it out of the equation and just address it at an emotional level, which is not intuitive for people growing up here and then just spending time with it and bringing a level of care to that area listening or tuning into that and seeing what arises naturally. Cut out the thoughts. That’s just words, and we’re just describing this. But to me, when I hear cut them out, that means get out of here. It’s not that we want to not think, try to not think. Good luck with that. Especially if you’re someone who’s ruminating a result of not being able to connect with our motions and burning off anger, worry, fear, by thinking. The brain consumes the amount of energy that it takes to run a marathon by thinking every day. Right? And so if that’s all we’re focusing on, we can’t just say, hey, stop. It’s more about how can I engage with that part, meet it. How can I be with it, allow it, accept it, attune to it, see what it means, and take that with me. So to say like someone is really worried, they end up isolating themselves of their house, thinking about this all the time and just want to make it go away. Well, that’s just avoidance. Because I’ve been there, and I’m saying that because I’ve been there myself, and it’s more waiting for some perfect moment for us to reengage with life. And that’s not what it’s about. You know, it’s about taking it with you. So how can I do what I love to do, tired, worried, scared, that also includes sitting on the couch and resting and not feeling guilty about that, right? Like, we just want more agency. We want more choice. We don’t want to dismiss or stop any of these parts from, we want them to speak with us. Maybe another thing would be that this is telling us like, oh, I need to think about this all day long. And so we may be aware of that. And we may hate part. I hear you. I know you want me to do X, Y, and Z. I feel that urgency. I know that it’s survival stress. And so instead of engaging in that, you’re gonna sit right here with me. So I’m not pushing the away. I’m not dismissing you. It’s almost like I do a picture in my mind where this younger party, I’m just sitting there holding it. So how can I take it with me, allow it to be there. Know that I can sit in the fire. And it’s not gonna burn me because some of these sensations and emotions are habitual. I think that happened in the past that’s on repeat because we keep pushing it down, suppressing it and avoiding it. And we move towards it we show it, hey, nothing bad’s gonna happen here. You’re safe. And it sucks. I don’t like it. You know, then the brain starts to make it less of a priority. It’s saying, oh, you know, he’s he’s really relaxing his body. He’s smiling at this activation. He’s talking to it. And man, it feels good when he responds to it. I’m gonna downgrade this should less of a priority for the brain of the nervous system. And that’s how we kind of turn things down on not make them go away. You’re describing there, I think what other people refer to as parts work. Sometimes those internal family systems, is that right? Is that yeah, that would be you. Parts work, semantic tracking, that would be there’s another one. Oh, I just bring her training as well. So it’s just combining a bunch of different modalities to connect you to yourself. These parts like we’re talking about interact with these sensations that we’re feeling in the body. And then give us more choice while educating because we can count and understand and we have more options. It’s like, okay, I like to work with different nature things, right? So we could think of activation and bunch of things that I use like fire. You learned that today, you know, fire is good in nature. Burst things away that activation could be release. It could be things coming out of the body, right? It’s not a thing to be afraid of. So if you learn that, you know, fire in the body, it feels like I have to get it going up. It’s a good thing. It’s actually releasing. Well, then I can notice that fear. My first initial reaction may be, oh, good away from it. Good way for me. I’m scared. Maybe I need to run, go take a pill or do whatever. And then you stop and you realize, oh, yeah, remember that thing that said that fire is good. It’s cleansing to maybe I can sit with this a little bit longer because really so much of us and I’m learning this more, we just didn’t get to take things to completion. So it’s kind of like a picture like a helicopter painting or a pen that’s overly empathetic. It sees that their kid is in stress and doesn’t want to be in that because maybe they’ve experienced that themselves where they have anxiety and it’s too much to watch their kids suffer. And so they don’t need to experience things going to the top end of the spectrum and they come down. You know, so it’s it’s building this capacity to sit with ourselves in the intensity to know that it’s not going to hurt me and to just love the shit out of it. You know, meet it with compassion, meet it with curiosity and know that if I can be with this, then it can calm down. And that’s just part of learning emotional wellness and regulation and some of you just don’t get that as a beginner course to your being a human. That’s right. I’m so glad that you’re here doing this and describing it the way you do those really beautifully put being the Joe Rogan of wellness coaching for men. Maybe you’ll have the podcast, but it’s great. You’re out. Yeah, man. I just released my first episode yesterday of the rooted conversation. Yeah, just a little celebrating today a little bit. All right, congratulations. So where can people find their best? Yeah, I knew this is going to be a good one. You can find me on my website, mitchweb.com. There’s a form there for filling out for one-on-one work. There’s also a newsletter that goes out that she can subscribe to. You can find me on TadeMitchWeb on Instagram. I’m on LinkedIn. I’m on Facebook. And I don’t know if I gave you my little free giveaway. Some basic nervous system training stuff. Did you get that? Awesome. Perfect. Yeah, I can send that over later. Well, add it to the notes. Great. I’m glad you’re thanks so much, Matt. Thanks so much for being a guest here today. Yeah, man. Thanks for the opportunity. I enjoyed it. Oh, my God. Hear that? Exactly. That’s the sound of McDonald’s extra value meal. Sausage McMuffin with egg, hash brown, small hot coffee, and sweet golden silence. All for only $5. Price and participation may vary. Promotion pricing may be lower than meal pricing. Pa-da-pa-pa-pa. Taxes was feeling so stuck. Sitting in traffic, squeezing into a parking spot. 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